Sunflower Fields to Campaign Trails

What turns a sunflower harvester and a babysitting guitarist into entrepreneurs? In this episode of Counter Current, Aaron Smith and Jack Hudson reveal the unexpected starts that fueled their business journeys—from machete-swinging in soggy fields to building websites for gas money. We dig into the grit of early jobs, the mentors who bet on you (not just your idea), and why Indiana’s tight-knit networks trump the DC grind. Full of laughs, lessons on finding your “monetizable passion,” and a fresh spin on work-life integration. 

Transcript

So, Aaron, you've told me before that you had to work in three different spaces in high school. Your parents made you. Tell me about that. Yeah. So I grew up on a farm middle of nowhere in the.

And, I hated it at the time. But my my dad, as a as a farmer, said, you can go off and do whatever you want to with your life. But before you do, you have to have three different kinds of jobs. If I have a job in foodservice, a job in, retail, a job in physical labor.

So I was like, okay. So living on the South side of, Indianapolis, we, We're here. Jonathan. Birds. So I worked in an old person cafeteria and, scooped chicken livers and potatoes and, cafeteria food for people, like all of us, which I've never used chicken liver again. That. After that.

So I also worked at staples, and then I worked at staples. The have these about here. And, so you had kids coming in and slapping, the button all day long and, definitely trying to patience. And then I thought I would call my dad's bluff. So, I didn't think that I would have to have the job, in physical labor and so my dad's an insurance agent, and so he gave me the shot.

He said, okay, you're you're either going to have to go find the job or, I'm going to find it for you. And so I called his mom, and I think that he went and, one of his, clients is a, sunflower farmer, which, you know, thinking about sunflower farming, I think there's, you know, leprechauns and sitting around all day, and it is horrible.

My biggest pet peeve in the world is having white socks. And you go out there and six in the morning, and I was working with, an elderly guy and another guy that was deaf. And so I'm out there alone, walking through a field, no one to talk to, you know, and no one's listening to me. Your socks are wet, and, you have a machete, harvesting sunflowers.

And it's horrible. Horrible. But it taught me a lot. Taught me grit. And, I always feel like I had some drive going into the business world. But that definitely pushed me along, right? Yeah, and definitely when I got to college, I was able to launch off from there. And I think that's the part of the words that were planted early on to start a business in college.

Yeah, absolutely. What about you? Well, I've told you, my, mind is very different. I had no traditional job in college. Really? First job was babysit for girl cousins between the ages of two and nine. All summer, full time. Made good money. Put on a cooking show every day for lunch to keep them entertained.

Paid the girls to change the youngest diaper. Because I refused to do it. Yeah. Yeah, I it cost me a couple of hours of wages every day just to get them to change the diapers. And, and then I gave guitar lessons when I started playing guitar. And did that through a studio in Pendleton, Indiana, where I grew up.

And then in high school, my parents were like, you need to make gas money. So I built my uncle a website on Squarespace and bought a camera with the money and, started doing videos and photos and senior photos and, photographing houses for my mom. And then quickly met my first business partner, who we started right, right at the start of Covid.

Doing professional video work. Did her first political campaign, did corporate work in Atlanta. Super cool. And I was 15 meeting with people I shouldn't have met with. It's kind of the theme of my of my existence. And then we went to college, split up, and Emily and I started Babbel. So it's been in addition to internships and regular jobs through college, but, it's been sort of a serial entrepreneur journey, in its own way.

But yeah, I think a lot of that comes from the fact that all of my family is self-employed. My mom was a realtor. My stepdad has a had his own business. Still does. And then my grandpa was in construction, had his own business. My uncle, my, cousins have their own construction company, so my whole family was self-employed, and a lot of them worked with their spouses.

And none of that scared me out of the gate. And really convenient to have a bunch of help saying, here's how you start an LLC. Or I'll just do that for you. Don't worry about it. Which which could be a huge hesitation for people thinking about it. What would you say it was for you? Was a year from the first like.

Like an entrepreneur? Yeah. Oh, gosh, that's a good question. I think, you know, like starting with a camera. It was filming high school sports games and stuff, and then it was somebody reached out and said, hey, how much would it cost to, you know, get the shot of my son or something? And I was like, okay, so people just want to pay for something cool of themself, right?

And that even started with the website, like I was building this website for my uncle, and I was like, wow, this looks a lot better than what most people do just because it's not old and out of date. And seeing that you can make the money. And if I wanted to work from 6 to 8 p.m. or I wanted to work from noon to two, I could, and I think that flexibility was the biggest thing.

And that's true in college, too, because what I found myself doing, for the first two years of school, I guess since I graduated in three, was during the day I'd go to class, and then in the evening I'd work, and during the day I'd catch up on emails. And then senior year, it was like any break between class.

I was just working. So it was business hours. So I could get back to people on time. And then in the evening I'd get caught up on school. So, being able to do that from the get go was like, why would you do anything else? It's a it's addictive when you have the freedom. Oh, it's such a and that's.

You know, coming in today, I was thinking about that. So I have a question for me. What was entrepreneurial like? When did that. That, like for me? And looking back. Mine actually had a long time before I actually started my business when I, started as a, intern on the Hill. It's a very, self-driven place.

You have to have relationships, but you also have to have drive in order to, in order to succeed. And, and so I started this, the guy that answers the phones, which is the worst job on the face of the planet, even though I love the guy who I work for. No one calls. They're sending the rapid software back.

And so for me, I learned a lot about how to deal with people. The customer service aspect of it, and how to learn a lot of, about a ton of different topics. After that, I went back and worked on his legislative team for a while. So you got to really dive deep in some certain areas.

And then I had this moment where I was like, I don't want to live in DC forever. Like, I want to end up back in Indiana. But I don't want to do that. I don't want to be a lobbyist. I don't I don't want to go down the normal route that a lot of people know about. And so I was trying, but honestly, the entrepreneurial buying here when I was trying to figure out how to pivot from there.

And so I, went to my chief of staff and I said, hey, I think that we really need to dive into digital commerce. And I felt like I was really prepared. And, he politely said, yeah, we don't need to do that. And so really, it was a great moment for me to take a step back and say, like, okay, I did not prep myself the way that I should for this meeting.

So I went back, prepared this massive memo, stating the case for why we didn't do it. And, so I went back and I gave it to him and he said, all right, well, we'll we'll give it a shot. You have to still do your job that your, your paid to do, but we'll let you do it by doing this and we'll see if it takes off.

And obviously, in the industry that you and I both work in, it took off like wildfire. At that point, and it's 2012, 2013. So there were we are still committing egregious, social media sins of the time. But we started doing more video. We started doing more on social media and engaging, with people.

And it was it was awesome. It was great. I'm all self-taught, and so it was a great opportunity to dive deeper into that as well. And, really that that paved the way, for me to start my, my business afterwards. Because then when my wife and I moved back to Indiana, I had already, even though I was under the guise of working for the federal government, I was able to learn how to drive on my own path.

Yeah. Was not worth. Yeah. I think being self-taught is such a huge part of entrepreneurship. It's like you can't stop learning or it's like feast or famine. You will hear. Business will die if you quit innovating with the times. And that was, that was a gripe with college for me because they were like, oh, you can't have an internship for your first two years for credit, right?

This is one of their rules because they want you to take knowledge and and then they're like, and then you should have it for their who teaches you or expands upon your skills. And I was like, do you realize some of my old but some of my old bosses from different jobs still call me and ask me how to do things, because what I was doing was not what they were doing.

I mean, I was basically, part time staff or months or full time staff, on like a trial basis is how it was. And that's where that's what else sort of bit me, about entrepreneurship and knowing that this would work was, hey, okay, this is desired and not that many people know how to do it out there.

Where is it needed the most? And that's clearly a value add. So, for those of you that don't know, Emily and I do video production and digital strategy, mainly for political campaigns. But, when we were leaving the Hill because we were out there for a summer, it was like, okay, out here, there's the people we'd want to work for super hard working and maybe not the most dedicated to being on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, or to getting every press club they can, or getting a bunch of Fox News hits.

Right? And we don't necessarily want to work for people that are more focused about their message than their work for constituents. So we said, okay, where is what we do need it. And we said, on campaigns, right. It's not an option not to have a social media presence anymore. And people need to go viral with smart ideas.

And we need to help those people that maybe struggle the message because they're talking about really nitty gritty subjects, to get their message out there. And part of that is, yes, we have to hype up the messages that work already. But then once you get that following, you can come in there and provide really valuable information.

And that's where sort of being out there, we realized that we wanted to live in Indiana and it was, okay, how can we make this work? And where is this really needed for the people we like working for? So think about that. Why Indiana though? Because, I mean, there's times, right? Yes. If you work in politics, you have to be there.

Yeah, yeah. You figure out the the way that going. Yeah. Yeah. Emily and I both turned down jobs, which was terrifying, because we were heading heading into our senior year of school, and we could have had good paying what I thought was my dream job all growing up, in DC right away. Her working for a consulting firm, me working for one of 2 or 3 places on the hill.

All of which would have given me a lot of freedom to run with creative ideas. But while we were out there, we realized that we missed our family, our family's here, our communities here, our networks here. And this business we had worked on was here. And, I think now we could probably move to DC and make our business work and stay plenty busy.

But it was also, you know, we didn't want to give up on this, this community we had dug in and built, and we love it here. I mean, I say to everybody at Butler when I go back, everybody I meet, like I'm the biggest Indiana fan. I will advocate for Indiana through and through because there's nothing not to like other than the fact that it's a seasonal state.

Right. And we have world class sports. We have great concert venues, we have great small towns, we have great cities. And that's only going to grow. And we see that growing, you know, every day it seems like there's a big announcement, whether it's here in Devils Ville or, downtown or in Boone County, people are making strives to make this a hub for manufacturing and culture and arts and everything.

And I will always advocate for that. But I think a lot of it was that that network of, hey, I know all these people here, people that if I do fail, or, you know, as my mom would say, if Emily gets pregnant one day, I can call them up and get a job with benefits if I need to.

Right. And those people are all over the state. That. And that's what I always say. The biggest selling point of Butler is anyone from their network will pick up the phone, and I push that to the absolute limit in college, getting coffees and lunches and drinks with people that I shouldn't have met with. Right. Again, because CEOs will answer and CEOs will answer, and the head of a bank will answer who was an alumni?

And they'll help you every step of the way from here's what business lending looks like to Jack. Here's that vertical you should expand into to Jack. Have you thought seriously about your business development? What do you want to do in five years? And being located in Indy for three years to get my business started meant a lot of those meetings right away.

And, they're they're the people I love to work with. And, I've also found people warned me when I got started that some people in politics are not great to work with or that you want to be wary of. And I found that many people in Indiana, I knew that they were good people, they were smart people and they were principled people.

And whether we agree or not on everything in the political world or the personal world, they've all got my back and I've got theirs. And I just want to be, you know, a success for them to tout as a mentee one day. Right. And I think that that Hoosier hospitality played into it a lot. It's it's funny, that's a lesson I learned in somewhat of a different way that on the Hill, there's thousands of people that work on, but what's most amazing to me is that a lot of a majority of those people, didn't get there on their own.

Right? There are a lot of people. And it was explained to me when I was an intern, if you want to work on the Hill, you have to do the work, while you're there in the capacity that you have. But you also have to know the right people and you have to do authentically. Right. So that's what I, you know, starting as an intern on the Hill, I sat down and I had coffee after coffee, hour after coffee, with people from the Indiana delegation and, other tangential, areas of interest that I have.

Yeah. And what I found so interesting and encouraging was from a staff assistant all the way up to the chief of staff would most likely take the meeting because somebody took the meeting for them early on. And so when I was looking for a job there, I had 40 coffees. And, those relationships are ones that I still lean on today.

So, the, the guy that was a ADP intern, the best example I have, one of the people that sat down tried to do it was not right. And I guarantee she doesn't remember it. Because, again, I was this, you know, intern in counsel's office. But what is so amazing is she did take time to sit down, even though they didn't have a job opportunity, in their office.

And she still walked me through how she got to where she did. And, you know, even not, you talk to somebody who ran a Super Bowl, had a has worked in the House and, the Senate. She worked for Dan Coats as well. She worked for, the executive branch under, President Bush. And now, is the CEO of the Pacers.

Those are relationships that, we still lean on today. Last year, we announced that the Pacers were expanding to almost all of their G-League. And when Chris Johnson and I sat down with the Pacers team, it was Mel Raines and Danny Lopez on the other side of the table. And all four of us had worked for me and coach at one point in time.

And so that was what I thought was so interesting in a, in a, in an entity as big as the Hill, where there are thousands of people, it is still such a small world. And you never know how those relationships, will come back to help you, later on in life that that was ten years after I had that meeting.

I had no idea that I would ever try to orient again. And but it goes to show that whether it's business, whether it's politics, there are so many, lines that cross. Yeah. And if you authentically try to build those relationships, it will come back. Come on, please take a seat. Yeah. And that's what I found. I mean, it's weird because it's almost been two years since I was out there now, which seems weird.

And it freaks Matt Lauer out. Every time I see a face like that. Can't be right for the. And, Yeah. And I met with people from Tim Scott's office while Emily was working on his campaign, and they're like, hey, if you, you know, if you need a job, reach out after you graduate. All of these people, they meet with you.

And as long as you were honest with them and took the time to really get to know them and think of them, follow up. Always happy to help and always happy to keep your name on file. Look out for something for you. And that's true to this day. And I think that's something that maybe in Indiana is not taught well enough, is that ability to network, can reach out and have good relationships, especially for young people.

Getting started. I think that's like the biggest thing they're missing. Because it can be scary to send the cold email or cold text or whatever. But normally you could probably start with your parents and say, hey, is there anybody I should meet with or our teacher or professor? And they normally have somebody. But but that was sort of one of the lessons I took back from DC was I want to be sort of the DC level of political successful in terms of what we do in Indiana, because why not?

Because you can't be now. And, part of that means starting on DC scraps. Somebody, we both now told me that. And, that's where I was like, we both took that mentality back here where, like, there's no reason we can't be doing what the big players are doing. In Indiana, everything is a flight, a drive or a phone call away.

And we have great connections out there now that are advocating for us. People that worked in the speaker's office, people that work in the whips office right now, those are people we still get to meet up with when we go out there. And that will always vouch for us, or see if they can plug us in in some way.

And that that, I think is a huge detriment to sort of the mentality of starting in Indiana. I have this well, in the mentality of not being in the non entrepreneurial mindset teaches you to like, you know, go to school, get a job, you'll be fine. Right? But along the way you're missing out on these relationships that can really excel.

You. And I see that with friends that are, you know, how do you become that 28 year old that leveraged themself to leadership before they're 30? Right. And I think a lot of what those people do differently is they figure out how they can get a coffee with the person ahead of them, and then that person will show them to the person ahead of them, and then they figure out how to make those people's lives easier.

And that's all it takes. If you can make someone's life easier, even if it's just for a day, they will vouch for you. Yeah. And and you just had something like that come up where where you help somebody out and they help you out. And, yeah, I think that mentality has it hasn't saturated Indiana yet. Correct. And that's what and I think doing that authentically right.

Because I would say that's the other side. Do you see the other side of that coin? There are lots of people that are trying to do it and authentically. Yeah. And so that's what I always try to do. That you, you mentioned in a little bit, but when I sat down to have coffee with people, the vast majority that had no job available.

And so my ask always was, I want to I want you to introduce me to three people that you think would be interesting for me to, to talk to. Yeah. And what was great is it just naturally expands the network because you have somebody else vouching for you or saying, hey, this is a good guy that you should meet with.

And so then when you do sit down to have coffee, you already have some little bit in, and it's a really low pressure, meeting that you get to have. But, I think it's a great way to naturally expand your network in an era that, like, social media is super authentic. And so being able to do that in person and establish real relationships, just pays dividends down the road.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Coffees are a great invention, right? I don't know if it's the drink or the place or what, but it is funny before, when I, when I was on the hill, actually that very coffee. And then when I started having all these meetings behind and back to the, I felt like I needed to learn how to drink coffee.

Yeah. I was like, well, if I'm going to learn how to drink coffee, I'm going to learn because I'm not going to get any curfew, stuff on there. So this is double shot of espresso. That's that's my thing every single day. That's right, that's right. Yeah. Well, and then you had kids and start waking up at 5 a.m., right?

That that does make a difference. Yeah, yeah. I have to have a little shot of caffeine before I. Yeah. Start the day. Something else that I thought was interesting, you know, thinking about starting a business. Mentors have been a huge piece of that for me. At one point, I looked at after I started my business, I was looking at going back to get an MBA, which is something that I, I made it down the road still.

But really, when you're going through an MBA program, you do have to establish a relationship. And I said, well, until I get to that point, I want to, you know, get some mentors in my life. What what does that look like for you, for me now, getting mentors, or that's the weird thing. And I actually asked this at a to be at this college class, and they were talking about mentorship and how important it is.

And I said, well, how's that work? I said, are you supposed to go up to somebody and say, hey, will you even mentor? Because that feels a little odd, right? Like going up to a 60 year old man that's had success in business and being like, hey, will you look out for me for a couple of years and help me be successful?

And they're like, I don't think that's how it works. You know? It's like, yeah, but you don't have a good answer. And I think, I think it's a clicking thing. Right? It's have those network, relationships put you in touch with more people and see who you click with and who's ideas you admire and who you know will call you out if you need called out.

And you also have to know where to put your boundaries. I have a great mentor, that I meet with fairly regularly, and he'll bring up these ideas for me for business development. And on one of them, I just said, if I'm being honest, I'm just not passionate about that. Yeah, I'm not going to enjoy doing that.

And he's brought it up several times. And every time I'm like, hey, you know, I don't really want to do that. And he said, I appreciate that you stick up for what you're passionate about, and that's what you pursue. And I think that's part of the mentor mentee relationship, is you're both teaching each other. I have people younger than me that I meet with, people older than me that I meet with.

And, you advocate for each other. You help each other out. But you also know that your business is your business, and my business is my business. And, there's infinite roads to get to success. But I think that. Yeah, some of it starts naturally of. Hey, what school did you go to? Did you join Greek Life for a club or, you know, what internship did you have?

Or are you from Dan Coats for other Todd Young world or, wherever else the Hill has that natural effect, but, yeah, I think those natural things can lead you in. So, like I met first, I started by meeting Butler alums. That helped get me my first internship. And then I met fraternity alums that connected me with more people and helped with financial advice and all that sort of thing.

And then those people say, hey, I know somebody else in Indy that you should meet with. And then when you meet all these people and you got to DC, you say, hey, we're going to take a three day trip to DC. Can you help me land to meetings out there? And then you wind up having 15 in 3 days?

And that's I think it is a compounding effect, like what you said. But none of it happens if you don't do good work and you don't have momentum. And that's where I've found if I don't go back to mentors with, if I do good work, right, the person at the top is way more likely to meet with me.

Yeah. Especially if it's a mutual connection or. Hey, we gave we've been supportive of that campaign. We saw your video work. Let's meet up. And if you don't have momentum or something to update them with. Right. Yeah. You need both of those things for here's what's been going on. Here's the work we've been doing. Just wanted to share.

And it's those touch points that matter so much to keeping those relationships alive. Because normally if you're asking somebody to be your mentor, they've got it a little more figured out than you. Right? So you want to be respectful of their time, too. And I always try to be respectful of their time. While getting my questions and everything.

But yeah, and normally I try to ask, what can I do for you? Right. So normally I wind up with some level of homework after those meetings of, hey, here's I'm going to connect you with this business to maybe do a video work for. And I want you to help write out your ideas for an alumni program for university.

Since you just got out of school, I think it'll be beneficial coming from you. Great. Happy to do it. So I think keeping that being a mutual relationship. And of course, you have to care about each other, too. It can't just be, transactional. Right? Right. And I've said to many people, I mentors, if you have a good mentor, they're brought into you and not your idea.

So if Babble Media went under tomorrow and I needed to pick myself up with a new idea, I know I could go back to these three mentors and they would be there because they know they think Jack's going to be a successful day, or they think Aaron's going to be a success one day, and I might not be now.

I'm 21 still. It could be in ten years, but that's right. That's a whole nother episode. But they get bought in on that and not the idea. And I think that's so important is to find those people that aren't just with you because they think what you're doing is going to make money or something. It's no, I think you're a good person.

It's good ideas. And you have a good work ethic. And that's so much more important than X. Good idea. Yeah, I, I completely agree. There's actually my pastor, there Chesky, who explained the mentorship for the best, to me, and this is man one almost a decade ago. But he said, the whole idea of mentors and mentees should be like a river, right?

If you're sitting in the middle and you picture yourself as a lake and you are only pouring into people, you're right. You're going to become dry. So if you are, if you just have a few mentors mentees below you, you're not being filled in. I feel like at it the opposite way. If you only have mentors, and no one else under you, you become kind of a stagnant pool of, water because you don't have any notes.

And so if you have people pouring into you and you're pouring into other people, it's really this, like healthy relationship on both sides. And what I found most interesting in my life now, almost 15 years of, professional world, I learned almost as much, was that the people that I mentor, then they get for me.

That's why I say that I'm a 90 year old champion, 35 year old body. And so for for people that are younger than me, or that are really are on their career that I, you know, take on as a, mentor. I learned a ton from them about what, what, what younger people think.

But then also, when I sit down to, look at the way that I should scale my business, that was one of the things I, when I was hiring people, when I've had to fire people. Right? I, I've, I've talked to people that are ahead of me in their careers. I have somebody that's ten years, 20 years and 30 years ahead of me.

And none of them are in their communication for it, which is even more helpful, because they're not necessarily tied to the, the, the industry that I have. But they've all had to, to walk through the things that I have as business owners. And so it's been really helpful for me because there isn't a you can Google anything.

Sure. But there's no practical playbook for how to scale. And to your point, earlier, no one knows your business the way that you do. And so they give great advice. I think the hardest part as an entrepreneur is figuring out like, okay, how do you pick what they give you? And then translate it, into, into the issue that you're facing.

Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that, what you're saying almost reminds me of church, where when you go, especially after a long time, it feels like whatever that message is perfectly applies to your life. Right? And I think that's the thing with mentorship as well, whenever you have that meeting, personally, I think there's nothing more rewarding than like a great one hour conversation with somebody where it's going both ways.

And sometimes, this is another thing. You get a coffee with somebody and it's a total dud, right? It feels it feels sticky the whole time. It's like you're pulling teeth. They're pulling teeth. Nothing clicks. But it's worth having three duds to get one great one. And when you get a great one, there's nothing more rewarding than starting a new relationship with somebody.

And normally you come away with a snippet that perfectly applies to something you're going through right now, or some business development problem you're facing. And sometimes I'm probably overly honest and transparent with our ideas and everything. I just put them all out there. I'm like, here's what we're doing. I normally say, please don't steal this idea.

But we think it's a good one, and I hope it doesn't take business from you. And I hope you don't steal it pretty much. And I'm happy to tell people because normally they have great ideas to feed into it. If I just had an hour of genuine conversation with them, they're probably not going to turn around and stab me in the back.

And the more people they know about it, it's better for you, right? It's it's better that your name and your brand get out there. So I, I kind of practice that overlay. Transparent, honest. If you're sitting down with me in person, I'm happy to tell you whatever you want to know. If it's over the phone, maybe I'll be more careful.

But if we're looking at each other of the eyes. Right. And then I think that's when you take the most away from it is when you can get that person to be, like, equally as transparent of, well, here's the time we struggled or, you know, I don't have any work lined up next month, if they can say that.

Right. Then why shouldn't I share my good and my bad ideas? Yeah, because nobody has it all together all the time. And I think the other thing, you know, a very practical example for me, when Dan comes from mountains or retirement, he did not know that he would eventually get tapped, to be director of national intelligence.

And so I was looking for jobs, you know, the last six months of, you know, him being in office, and I was trying to figure out what's next for him. Again, I had had this, you know, somewhat of an entrepreneurial bug. And so it was actually Dan Coats, who I consider a mentor in my life, who said you should you should open your own business here, that you've done this for me.

You know how to do it. And so for me, something that was so obvious, to him was not obvious to me. And so sometimes I think it really helps for you to have other people in your life that know you well, that they can kind of bring that to life. And so for me, when that and that's how I started my business, as he was transitioning to, director of national intelligence, he was actually my first client.

So I, I took him on in that, that transition process. And then that gave me enough umph to get across the line to then start out going out and finding clients about, and so really finding people that believe in you, and that I do so authentically is and it's such a huge part worship because, wow, people from the outside looking in think that, you know, after worship, is this solo journey really it's not you have to have people in their corner.

Yeah. You cannot. But I think it's the most collaborative journey you can take. And I think, you know, there's two ways to like entrepreneurship, and neither of them are wrong. Right? You can build a business that you want to scale and grow beyond, yourself. Right. And hire as many people as you can. Or you can say, I want to build something that supports me and my lifestyle.

Yeah, yeah. And then when I'm done, it's done. Sort of thing. Maybe I can tell my client like, and both have their own challenges, and both have their own strengths. Right. And I think finding that, you know, initially you have to support yourself right away. Right. And luckily, I can be on my parent's insurance for a few more years and that sort of thing.

But I have that many years to figure out. Okay, then how do I get my own health insurance plan? And then that's a whole nother thing. But we have a mutual connection. Rocky, who told me he said that the stress of entrepreneurship never stops. It just turns into a different thing. Yeah, it goes from, hey, how do I make enough money to pay the bills to, hey, is it time to get that office?

Is it time to hire someone? Oh, no. We hired a lot of people, and I'm playing H.R. now. Hey, do I want to cut back? And that's your whole life, right? We talked about it all the time. We can set our schedule. And if on a Wednesday we're not that busy. And Emily and I want to go run around and run errands.

Great. But also, I'm thinking about the fact that we're not that busy, or I'm thinking about the fact that I'm waiting on that email, and I might get in at 8 p.m. and have to answer there. There's no set timeline for your clients. And you are the call, and you want to provide a great experience every time.

And, so on the one hand, you have more flexibility than anyone else does. On the other hand, your brain is always in that that state to some extent. And I don't know about you, but I don't think work life balance is a thing. I think that it's, like work life integration is you're never going to be 100% work for 100% personal.

And for me, right, like, I feel like I haven't always known what my parents did growing up, or I want my kids to know what I do and how value is made, and I want them to know what their value is. And I try to preach that to people in Butler or wherever that I talk to of like, hey, you could go charge this much to do that.

Do you realize this? So I want people to know their value, and I want my whole family to and I want it to be an integrated thing of, hey, here's how we collectively make money and here's how things work, and here's what we do and how we think. And the goal isn't to make somebody else go do what we do.

It's to teach problem solving and knowing your value. So if you do want to go down the traditional path, great, but know how much you should make. And a lot of that is not because you can apply for a hundred jobs. But who did you get coffee with? Yep, learning that skill of, this person can help me get a job that pays 30% more than the jobs on LinkedIn that I'm finding.

Or it's such a great experience that it will get me there three years faster. And that I love that concept. Jason manship big shot. Yeah. Just downstairs. That's the reason why he opened the game shop. Was he, he and his wife have kids? And he was working at it, and he would come home and his kids had no idea what he did and how he did it.

So he's like, man, I don't I want my family to be provided, I want to have an impact on my community. I have the ability, like, I know how to run a business since I got so old and, you know, all these different types of businesses. Why do I want to do this? And that was right before covet.

And when he started that business, which is on the square downtown also, it launched through the roof, which, an unintended, the not only was he serving his family and bringing his family to what he does, but he, you know, came in and created such an asset for the community as well. And so I think that's the there's so much, so many other layers of entrepreneurship to that.

It's not just it is what you're doing for you, but it's what you're also doing for your family. You know, how you bring others into that to affect change, right? Well, and I think that's been that's my favorite people to meet are the ones that have some servant component to it. And I think I've been bit by that bug since I was young.

Whether it's student government or getting involved in clubs or volunteering at a camp to play guitar or this or that or the other, I want to give back to my community. Right. You play guitar too? Hardly anymore. Yeah. It's funny, I saw the high school band director, and he was giving me a hard time for not playing.

But that's, you know, I think that's such a huge part of it. And the people I've met that I like the most are the ones that got bit by that. That servant's about whether you're on city council or you're volunteering at a high school program or you're volunteering at your church, or are you worked in government because you wanted to do good and not because, not because you wanted to meet somebody cool?

All those sorts of things are, I think, make the best mentors or relationships and, and a lot of times just really successful people giving back to you shows the fact that they have a servant's heart and they want to pour into the next generation. And that can be that can be their contribution to, but just like that story, it's pouring into your community typically gives back to yourself in some way, down the road.

And it it's, you know, so fascinating. As I started my business, I have this after I formalized everything and I got my LLC, and I realized I had no idea what I was doing. No one. Yeah. Along the way right now, that's what they're doing. Yeah. And, but really, I have the people around me to, to help speaking to me.

Right as I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it, I realized that, you know, I like, our office on the square, you know, you see people that, businesses, buildings, all of them started at some point and had no idea what they were doing. And if they say they knew what they were doing, they're like, yeah, it's just you.

There are so many things you just learn along the way. I think the biggest thing with entrepreneurship is you have to be willing to take the risk and be willing to fail. Yeah. And that's for me. That's why the hardest part is behind them to fail. Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, some people say, don't, don't chase your passion or whatever, right.

My thing is chase your, your, monetizable passion. Right. So if you're really good at something that you can make money on, absolutely pursue it to the wall. And if there's something that maybe would be really challenging to make money on, but you're good at, maybe keep that as your hobby, right? Or find ways to do that.

And if it takes off, great. Like, I have a buddy from Butler who is going to flight school, but he plays the drums, and he studied music in college, and he says, I want to be a pilot. And when I get off places, I want to go play gigs. And I'm like, that's awesome, right? He found something, found two things he's passionate about.

One, don't pay the bills always. And he gets to see the world, and the other he can do anywhere he can find in New Orleans and play in a jazz club. So I was like, that's such, such a great example of that, right. And sure as they go on with this, but I think figuring out what those interests are and then how to apply those.

Yes. A huge key part. You mentioned Rocky earlier. He and his, now brother in law, started a business together, and that at one point there's a growing castle known as the Fishers Mountain as well. And, you know, they've moved to a building and also and then fair, you know, our, wives love to bake.

What if they open the bakery below and then set out to just become a bakery? Right. There's something that they figured out along the way. And one of the things that this is I remember the first time I sat down with Rocky, he said, you know, there's tons of bakeries out there. They're just on the top shelf out there.

I want to be like the butcher of baked goods where somebody comes and they get their loaf of bread there every week, and maybe they stop and get coffee, too, but really, like, big time for that. And we're going to have like six things on the menu. And we're going to do all six of them really well.

You go to coffee shops where they have everything, you know, that you could think of, and they said, like, we'll do some that we'll do some special things, but really we're going to be really good at these things and that's where we're going to put our life. Yeah, I love business owners that do that, but they, they understand the the boundaries of what they're good at and they don't want to be everything to everybody because that that's something that I learned early on that you can do, or else you'll know.

Yeah, absolutely. Well and that's, that's where I was going with what I was saying earlier, tied in to you said you're learning everything, right? So if you find something you're passionate about that you know you're good at and you figure out how to monetize that, you can figure the rest out. Yeah. If you have a really great skill that, you know, people need, boom, you're set.

There's your business, right? Right. You have you have the service or the product and you're good at it. And you know, people will pay for it. That's all it takes. You can figure out how to do the accounting, and you can figure out how to set up an LLC right, or pay somebody to do it, you know, and take that risk, take it out of your paycheck and get another client to pay for it.

Right. And that's where. Yeah, I think too many people make it too confusing to get started. Yeah. You can have a full time job and start something. And the weeknights and the weekends, if that's where you want to go. And I think the freedom of it, you know, I talked to a lot of people when I was just getting started.

And they say, when you become unemployed, you're never going to want to do anything else. You're never going to want to do it any other way. And, I mean, I felt that in DC, I was just like, oh gosh, look at all this cool work I could be doing for clients out here. Yeah, yeah, that, you know, so many ideas, so many ideas I could pitch, and not be restrained to one office or one, you know, one entity.

And that was that was a huge part of it too, was I have all these ideas that nobody else is doing. So I should probably be pursuing those ideas. Yeah. And, yeah, I think finding finding that monetizable passion, though, is huge because when you figure that out, you're kind of set. And I told that I had a lot of friends in college that struggled with what they wanted to do, and I did, too.

I didn't know if I wanted a normal job or to work for myself and then things how okay. Yeah. And then think, well, that's what I say. You know, of course people are like, oh, you still doing that video stuff I like? Yep, yep, that's my job. So, but I always said, don't figure out the job you think you'll want figure out the other parts.

Figure out. Do you want to sit at a desk? Do you want a bunch of people there? Do you want to be on the road? Do you know what does the job look like? Because you could be doing accounting in five different places, and one of them has exactly what you want. One of them, you're going out surveying and going to people's offices and interacting in another one.

You could be stuck in a cubicle all day, and there's nothing wrong with that if you like that too. But, I think it's way more important to figure out the attributes of your ideal job than it is to figure out the work you're doing. Because if you get good at the skill, you can do it anywhere.

And if you find an office or a company you enjoy, then more likely than not, they'll let you bounce around and they'll let you try out other things and they'll let you fail. The freedom to fail is so freeing. Because, I mean, I've always I pride myself on that in some ways of being able to bounce back and be like, okay, well, we're not going to do that and we're not going to do it that way next time.

Just had one of those last week, tried to set up a client's new website and their mail servers went down and everything, and I was like, oh, wow, that's never happened before, but we're going to make sure it doesn't happen again. And that's, that's part of the journey. Everybody fails. Yeah, it's just a part of it.

Yeah. And again, it's it's like the whole thing is about people, not what they're doing. If some business owners tell you that they've never failed, they're like, yeah. And, that's what I found. Like, you know, talking to people. Did you mentioned it a little bit, but building the attributes that you want in a career is so huge.

And I was just talking at this table or someone, a future who's starting his own business, and he said, well, how did you know? Like, this is what you wanted to do? And I said, like, I've done it, right. I had I mean, I wanted to call my own shots. Yeah. And I knew that I wanted to be a problem solver.

I didn't know if that's going to be, for communications or some other consulting, or if I would fall into a career that I really liked. And so I said, like, I'm not I don't know exactly. I don't get it, but I'm going to try to figure it out. And so in that process, over the last what I was 2017.

So last seven, eight years, you know, I realized things along the way that are important to me. My house is three blocks out that, I on any data that I can, I want to live within a five block walking commute. Where where my life is my son schools, front street, city Hall is right over there.

I built my office right here, and then my house is right there. The farthest I goes to the grocery store across the road. Like, that's like my ideal life. But I didn't know that when I started my business. You know, the same thing stands for, like, the type of work that I do. I could do communications for anybody, but what what are the ones that one pay the bills?

But actually, like, what are the ones that I actually. And when I found and that process was really it was the relationships that I like developing the most, you know, so for my longest standing clients, I've stayed with them through management chefs, through owner chefs, through different seasons. Covid was a huge season in the middle of all of that.

And what I found is like when you authentically build those relationships, you're able to be in the thick and the thin when clients where some other vendors just kind of go. Right? Absolutely. I think that's so huge. And a lot of that is figuring out which clients are you passionate about to. And that's been something we're figuring out.

Switching from political to corporate is, we sort of know the political clients we love to work with. We know, what that looks like, what the services are we provide, they know what we provide. And now it's been figuring out, well, what kind of corporate clients, what kind of nonprofit clients do we enjoy, and the purpose based ones, the ones that are doing great things.

We're working with Family Caregiving Company that every time I sit down and do work for them, I feel inspired and like we're doing the right thing and I love that feeling. Right. And you're not going to get that every time. You're not going to get the perfect, gleaming client every time. But, that one has already. They've added three people to their team that are on our call since we started with them.

They're beefing up their marketing and sales game, and we've gotten to be a part of that. And even that part alone. Right? Yeah. That's rewarding to be a part of that and to watch them grow and watch them succeed and further themselves. And all they're trying to do with these new people is to better their client experience.

Yeah. And those are the kind of people I want to work with, right? Whether it's your constituent or your client or better, your product. The people that have sort of that startup mentality through and through which campaigns naturally have that happen. Yeah. I mean, because every day is different, every month is different. That's, you know, that's my ideal.

Hey, let's let's get after it. Let's do hard work for them. And I would rather do three times the work for the same amount of money for clients I love. Compared to maybe projects I get bored of or I'm not as passionate about. And that's so true. Clients. Just people that you that you love to work with and talk to.

And, you know, when they call, you're not like, oh, you know, which I'm lucky we don't we don't really have any of those right now, but, you know, in the past there have been one said like, this is not a value aligned with what we want to do. And that's so huge. And I think that's one thing that I've that's been better at.

What I do is, I refuse to, take clients on just to pay for overhead. Right? Yeah. There are plenty of businesses out there that take clients on because they need to. I would rather have a firm operations. I do you take the clients on. Do you want to work with. You know, so like, one of my longest clients is really a health country club downtown Indianapolis.

And where when when I brought on our our newest team member, I said, like, like we're we're problem solvers. Like, we use communications to solve problems. But sometimes that means, like, setting up chairs. So we got to. Right, like that is not in our, brief. Yeah. For what we're going to do. But we're a part of the team, we want to be an extension of the team.

And so, that was actually really cool. I came full circle this week, for them, I, you know, the way back and, this November of, I think it's 20, 24, the Indiana Chamber of Commerce came out with their best places to work call in action. And I've seen it has, from outside perspective, the work that they've that really has done over the last year to really shore up the way that it looks and feels and it's club behind the scenes for its employees.

That has nothing, just communications. Right. But I went to, the GM and I said, like, I think this is something that you guys should apply for, willing to help out however I can. But really, this could be something internal that you guys do. And they were named to the list this week. They weren't the only country club, one of four out of the 150 and hospitality industry in the state.

But now, as a communicator, I get to figure out how to help them leverage it, right, and help them tell their story. So, I think that's another place where, you know, some, folks that are in our industry would just view it as a, you know, just through the blinders of what they need to do. But it's what I found.

The best success that I have is when I truly try to be a part of their team in an authentic way. Yeah. It's, it helps me, in the long run. Yeah. More ideas is never bad, right? And that's what, you know, I in the video editing world, you wind up getting a lot of revisions down the road, and that's something that happens.

And I've worked with people before that would pull their hair out if they got revisions. And I'm like, it's not our video. Yeah. It's theirs. It's the client's. The client's gonna own this and present this. And if they want that, they want that. And more often than not, the more ideas you get in there and the more thought you get to it, it winds up being a better product.

And even if it's not better creatively at you, because a lot of it's subjective, it's, it's what they had in their head and we brought it to life. And you have to look at it that way. And that's true to all clients is, you know, you're there to help them out. And if you can chime in on non comms related things, go for it.

Because the more ideas you get in that room, the better. And if it winds up being a good idea, they're more grateful to have you there. If it winds up being a bad idea, it's a footnote in our long Google Meet. So that's yeah, I, I think, you know, being a part of the team and finding clients where you feel free enough to put your ideas out, there is a huge part of the process.

Yeah. No, it is what, you know, again, when I was thinking through, well, over the last seven years and some of the highlights from the whole alliance, why is what's your favorite moment so far? Oh. Favorite moment? Bagel. Yeah. I'll go first lady. Anything. Okay. Because I survived the pressure and I to my, one of my.

And this is super easy was getting a first check. I, when I was going out, starting a business, I went to my wife and I said, hey, I think this is what I want to do. I have no idea what I'm doing. But I'll figure it out all the way. And frankly, I, I've seen a lot of people that have figured out how to run a business.

Like, I think I can figure it out, but for the next six months, like, we're just going to eat rice and beans. And thankfully, we did it for half a year, which made it a whole lot easier. But once somebody who wasn't related to me paid me for something that I did for them, I was like, man, I can't do this right.

And so that is kind of a shot. My arm. Yeah, that was those will forever be a memorable, moment for me as a business owner. But, you know, also one of the and this is tangential to, you know, my business, but, my wife and I went through infertility for a long time, and I, when we went down the adoption route, we were matched with our son in Korea.

And, in the middle of 2020. And all that time, I was trying to figure out, okay, how do I take my business with me to Korea? And so it was terrifying because, like, I had no blueprint. Figure it out. But I had built off these authentic relationships with my clients, and they were willing to work with me.

I was halfway across the world adopting our son. And so I still remember the moments and our Airbnb in the middle of Seoul, Korea, and October of 2020 and thinking, how cool is that? I have the ability as a business owner to literally go halfway across the world, to still do what I do and no one's idea, to solve problems for, yeah, my clients.

But to be able to do it on my own terms and to, expand our family and, adopt our son in the process, it was like an interesting moment, right. Where I, I cannot even imagine having to, like, go to HR to figure out if I had enough leave time to take FMLA to figure out how to, like, go build my family.

Yeah. And that's the biggest thing that I found in this process, is I started a business to make lots of money. I wanted to be Steve Jobs and like, yeah, float around in my, you know, Scrooge McDuck, you know, pool. But in the process, I fell in love with the freedom, a freedom of color, a chance to work with people that wanted to know my timeline and to be able to.

So I decided with my wife to go to Korea for two months and adopt our son. And I think that that freedom is something that, I don't know, I never did that I wanted, but yeah, it's like, anonymous. Yeah. For sure. Absolutely. I think, you know, anybody that says they're not motivated monetarily at some level is like, so I remember in high school picking up a check for $3,000 and my mind just about melted.

We were like, driving there. We were so excited. We got it. We're like, this is this is huge. This is unbelievable. And then, you know, that business came and went. And then this past year, you know, graduating from school, getting married, going on a trip, having some student debt to pay off all these things, hitting not just our goal but our stretch goal last year, that was huge because that was like to all the family members that said, one of us should get a normal job no more.

Yeah, yeah, you don't have to buy that anymore. And you know, Emily, student that's paid off. We're all settled there. So like, that was huge. Just proving to ourselves that we could do it. But then, you know, on the other side of things, being able to help out and fill in the gaps at the wedding.

Right. Have freedom there for, you know, if moms and dads can't cover everything. Well, hey, we're happy to have skin in the game, being able to surprise people with nice gifts or, you know, my stepdad does all my taxes for free, right? So to be able to every year after tax day, we take them out for a super nice dinner.

That's one of our things because he doesn't charge us. So, we try to give them a great night and not not worry about it. That's a great experience. But then also just the clients we've gotten to meet, there have been so many pinch free moments. Getting tickets to inauguration was a pinch me moment, right? Of course, we didn't get to go in because of how things panned out.

But we were like, did that just happen? Yeah, right. We're like, did it Congressman, just come up to us at an event and give us tickets to inauguration? Did that happen? And that's I mean, we're, subject to enjoying the perks, right, of the job and those those sorts of things. Anytime we're somewhere where we feel like we shouldn't be.

It's a really cool experience. Whether it's filming, three presidential candidates, now, not necessarily for their campaign, but when they visit Indy, or, or going to Missouri for, high profile race, those sorts of things are huge. And then realizing that, hey, I've been around now, Governor Brian, for three years on campaign trails and been by him, and he recognizes me.

And, when you start to put those dots together, I think that's so fun because now, you know, there are people you admire, there are people that are doing cool things. There are people that are having meetings in the Oval Office, and they all know that we're Jack and Emily and that, you know, and, the relationship by association is a cool part of the job.

And it's also really cool to get those pull aside moments where you just get to know them as humans, candidates and clients and business owners, and say, you know, what made you want to do this? Or how are you successful in business? And hopefully we can talk to some of those people along the way.

But but that's been huge is learning from those people and people that I admire. And maybe I don't have them as mentors, but I have them as people I look up to. Yeah. And we also get to do work for them, which is here. How do you celebrate your 21st birthday? How did I oh, yeah, this is good one.

We have a client. It was the day after the primary, so we went up to Fort Wayne for a, campaign party, the night before. And then everybody was trying to get me to stay till midnight to have a drink with them. But we had to work the next day, so we drove back to Indy. Woke up at, like 6 a.m. with and film TV ads for a guy who's going to run for Congress.

And then he found out it was my 21st. So him and his wife took us out for a drink after we were done with the shoot. So that was that was my 21st five, and then I went out with friends that night, but, yeah, that was. Yeah, that that shows like the what you're talking time earlier the like the work life balance really it's more.

Absolutely. And when you work with people that you authentically enjoy being around. Right. And it is still work. Absolutely. Yeah. But you are able to like integrate yourself into it and they know you for Jack. You know, like the guy that does our video. Not just some random video guy. Right? Right. Well, and that's been a cool shift and I'm sure we'll talk more about it, but getting people to remove Emily and AI from the equation and say, we're hiring people, media, because eventually we don't want it to just be us, and we don't necessarily want to be the people on the shoot every time.

And that's been a cool experience to be around Indy and say, oh, we own Babbel. And they're like, oh, I've heard of you guys. You do so-and-so's work, right? That's a whole nother journey of yeah, especially for small businesses, is removing yourself from it because you always start with your friend. You start with your friends and family pool and they know you for.

Yeah. And what I found is, you know, part of it is just talking about yourself, like you're a little bit bigger than you are. And introducing yourself as a brand. And what I've said before is how I work for Apple Media. And they're like, oh, what are you doing? I'm the owner, right? And then they think about what media before they think of me.

Yeah. And that's that's been a challenge. And honestly, in the current digital landscape, it almost needs to be tied more to you individually. Yeah. I mean, that's part of podcasting, right? Is getting personal brand built in addition to your business. And that's honestly something that's really hard for me, when I work for cats. The.

This wasn't, like a, hard established rule, but kind of the mantra the office was, it's not our name on the door. Right. So, yeah. You're going to write letters, that you may not agree with, but it's because they're considering or not. So you work for, you're not just meeting pictures. You're not supposed to be in a press release or article.

Right. And so really, like, I got really good at making Democrats look good. And so then when I stepped out and ran my business, I ran for council and, you know, did these things where it was my name on the door. It is such a role reversal. And, and the balance of doing that in an authentic way.

Yeah, it's hard because we all know people that do it completely and authentically and they just flounder at it. Right. And so figuring out how to do that make yourself is, you know, a lot bigger than what you are. Yeah. It is it's hard. Yeah. And as a business owner, it's crucial that while you are doing the best work for your clients, you also have to progress individually.

If you do want to grow and you want to be a part of the community and you want to be known, and I think you're doing a detriment to yourself if you don't do those things, you don't know. How have I done that? Oh, gosh. A lot of it's networking, right? A lot of it is, applying for things, getting involved in organizations, helping out, whether it's in your hometown or in Indy or, you know, there's some great programs in Pendleton that really good people are trying to put together.

And I've said, hey, can we help get you guys some press? Like what? So build your future. I've talked to you about it, but my my cousins who are in construction put this on at the middle school, and it's one day for all of seventh grade. They get introduced to the trades. The trades are struggling to get talent, to say the least.

I think it's beyond that. It's a huge issue. And those jobs are going to start getting paid more and more and more. And they need them desperately. Yeah. So they introduce all the kids to the trades. There's 6 or 7 rotations throughout the day like it's a class day. So last year they built ten picnic tables that are now the picnic tables outside.

This year they're going to stay in those and build a few more, during the lunch portion, if you're not in lunch, they're doing touch a truck and a bunch of local contractors, business owners, Fredericks Construction, EMI, all those people are bringing trucks, concrete movers, all those things out. And people can get up and sit in them, sit in the back, do the whole thing, and they'll tip the dump trucks up.

So it's, it's to introduce them to that. But then there's also, at least last time there was a seminar portion where the students, it was more of a traditional lesson of here's how much the average college shop pays, here's how much the trades can pay. And here's what that look like. Looks like after five years and with the average amount of student debt.

And, you know, that might be a lesson that needs to be geared a little more towards high schoolers. Right? But, I think you saw people click and you saw people get excited about the trades. And then the eighth grade goes out and does that community cleanup day. So that last year they went downtown and did a bunch of projects in the parks and stuff.

But they want to make this a scalable program that, that any school can do. And hopefully every school does in Indiana to reduce the stigma on trade and introduce people to multiple careers. And I was like, this is this is huge, and you should never have a funding issue for a program like this. It cost about $10,000 to do.

You know, you should get a large corporate sponsor to just cut the check and help build the program out. And then if you get extra money, great. Rolled out into school, number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. But but I've been like, here's the pitch, right? Go to an Indiana Business Journal and say, hey, there's a huge trades problem.

We want to write an article about workforce and how we're trying to curb that. And it's starting in rural communities where there is less trade stigma than, the donut counties or Marion County. And I think that pitch is an easy one. Right. And it's a great story. It's a great program. And we're trying to help in that way.

There's, a high school entrepreneurship program that is starting in Pendleton that we're going to be mentors at, and they're spreading all across the state. I think they have like 12 campuses doing it, including Fishers High School, Pendleton Heights. And then I think Kokomo is a similar program. So, that those things. Right, we try to get back there, however we can and helping them is good for us.

Right? It's good for business. You're there with a bunch of contractors and construction crews and, help plan a big corporate deal. We're going to do video coverage for the day. We did it last year. And, you know, giving back in those ways. Yes, it's good for you. But more importantly, it makes you feel good and you're helping your community out, and then growing your name individually.

Right. That's applying for awards. That's investing in yourself, that's doing continuing education of some sort. And then that's having those mentorships. Right. And I've found that once you get to a certain point, they'll say, okay, it's time for you to meet with so-and-so, right? And so and so could be lunch with the president or butler or so-and-so could be, lunch with, the head of AT&T or this or that or the other.

All of those things is once you meet people and you get enough names on your client list and you have good enough work, then then more doors open and that that is a revolving thing. And I think there's something key there. It's like choosing to level up. Yes. Because where it's like, if you go to the corporate world, they have tracks that you kind of just naturally do that.

Right. When you're calling your own jobs. You have to figure out what that is and how you're, how you're going to do it, and have the drive to, to make it happen. Yeah. And so, you know, I've seen that in my, my, you know, journey as a business owner, being on boards, for me, it's here locally.

And also because that, that helps, the city council side as well. But being involved at that is very important. Now, I just joined the board of Roncalli High School, where I went to, school. And even though I don't live on the south side, right, there are connections that I have from, you know, city council and understanding finance on the municipal level that I can apply, at the, at the high school level.

Yeah. And so while they may seem disconnected, they really aren't in the work again, you know, the world so small, that finding ways to get back and to be involved outside of, what you do professionally and your family. Yeah. I think it's almost mandatory that you have to do. Yeah. Because it makes you, a better leader.

It makes you more well-rounded, and it gives you inside there. So many times that I have learned something from somebody else that I'm on board with, that I never would have thought of just sitting in my office. Right. And so purposely choosing to be around other bright people that aren't, you know, similar to you, it has been so helpful to me as a business owner.

Yeah. And I think you learn about just general challenges that exist in the world that you didn't know. And that's something we love about campaigns is going to meet with X ethnic community. That's a roundtable and it's a nonpartisan event. And you hear about, hey, we're struggling with this. And I'm like, I didn't even know that existed.

I didn't know that was a problem. Right. It's all just broadening your scope of understanding and knowledge. And all of those lessons apply elsewhere in life. And you start to realize when you go into a room or you have a meeting, hey, I probably don't know what these people are going to talk to me about. It makes you less of a know at all.

You know, the more you talk to people and the more you know, the less you realize, you know, and I think it's that there's a curve of when you learn things and when you first get into something, you think you know everything. You know, like when you figure out camera settings, you think you know everything, and then you get to a point and you realize there were always people, people that know abundantly more than me about technical things.

And that curve is interesting to watch. And it applies sort of every avenue you go down independently. And being able to learn every day and get involved in your community will help with that. Yeah. Well, next week, let's talk about, how you can get involved in your community. That's great. Awesome I can't wait.